I would like to apologise if any of this seems non-sensical, it's 6 am :D

I haven't made this thread to complain, just to voice my opinion on the two ranger subclasses and upcoming party spells.

If you make it through reading this I would love some feedback, being the only active marksman in the game I can't really hope for any other marks feedback, but rogues and anyone else who has an opinion would be great.

Firstly, vaguely talking about team spells. I assume it is in the best interest of the co-op spells to have as much variety in hunting parties, but all I'm seeing is Shaman+Paladin awesomeness while every other subclass gets mixed and matched, being almost useless in some cases. I would have assumed that making co-op spells wouldn't be about enforcing the two most played subclasses to never need anyone else hunting with them...

I don't know why a paladin+shaman would bring a warlock along, because to get the full extent of any subclass other than pal+sham, they need to bring another subclass to make use of co-op spells.

Getting off that train of thought for a moment I wanted to talk about Ranger debate. Amongst all the BUFF BARBARIAN spam I thought I should bring some thought back to this.

Secondly, the 'spread shot' verses 'piercing shot' seems to be a pretty big no brainer, AoE vs luring to a one way and shooting, my instant thought of there being a Ranger AoE spell was thinking that we both would have gotten a volley like spell that does a small AoE around the target? at least then Rogues and Marksmen would have the same spell (like quick shot, we both deserve similar dmging abilities in a way.) End of the day, AoE will always be superior, Warriors complain about their aoe doing too little damage, however it doesn't mean a thing, as it hits 12 squares of damage for 60 mana.

Thirdly, I wanted to talk about the Ranger co-op spells in comparison to actual subclass spells.

A Rogue can go invisible & make his whole party invisible & use the instant invis with another rogue.

A Rogue can make himself non locatable, in turn he can make his whole party non locatable.

A Marksman can do nothing that relates to teleporting, and teleport his whole party with a pyromancer that doesn't exist (high enough to cast it).

A Marksman can do nothing that relates to reducing mana, and reduce mana cost with a barbarian that doesn't exist.

I really feel like the Marksman spells and in turn their new co-op spells reflect nothing upon having any real detail being put in, we have one spell that actually helps out damage, but Rogue's get that too so I'm not going to count it. Razing also seems almost pointless, it's like, if I was to get trapped by a Haunted Cage, there just happens to be a Pyromancer walking past (theres like 0 of them on platon) that has his Razing Support keybound on his 12 hotkeys, that just happens to press it for me, then I cast my Razing spell, which I won't have room for either.

In a nutshell,
Short Escape + Cloak of Darkness + Mass Disappearance vs Razing and two spells I can't even test yet cause those classes virtually don't exist.

But yeah, I'm kinda tired, I'd love to get some peoples opinions on the subclass debate.

Thanks in advance.

I for one think that because Shaman/Paladin is the most common classes, they decided to give them the most useful spells in the game. And without making one class to powerful, they didn't know what to do with the others, so they just added some random crap in there.

I have marksman, and I play it actually quite active... *roll eyes*

Anyway, Thank you for writing this down, because I had excatly same feeling, but what I have learnt, is that it's not worth it to write things down and fight for balancing.
But, since you already wrote everything, I need to only comment, I can give some comments.

First:
Yea indeed, I agree that 2 most played classes share their spells together, not with rest which been played less. Ofc, I understand their spells kinda fits together, but atleast smth? No? =/

Second:
Yea, indeed, marksman's spread shot is almost impossible to hit, unless it's tight cave going straight or target ain't just moving. Don't understand me wrong, I love the spell, it's just kinda pointless. Would it be too much asked to make it instant? And ofc, some aoe wouldn't hurt, but that's smth I don't actually care that much. We keep distance from target anyway.

Third:
I wasn't sure why I was so disapointed to marksman, but now when I read your thread, I understand. Yes, indeed, Razing is almost useless. That other spell which everyone can cast does kinda the job alone.
Also 2 other spells, spells itself are nice, also I like high recruiments, but still, those classes won't be at that lvl anytime soon. Barbarian lvl 70 (bit less with kilter) and 12 ml there might be quite soon, but how many 91lvl pyros there rly be anytime near? Not many. Ofc, there ain't that many marksmans high enough lvls, but they got still potential for that, in my opinion more than pyros to 91lvl. Also those spells has nothing to do marksman. It feels like marksman isn't full or something. It really needs a spell which is for marksmans only, something special. Because at the moment when you look at marksman, you see just ranger which is bit faster than rogue, but without any fancy cool abilities.

For sure You got your rights, but i think u noticed only pve aspect, anyway I can agree to make requirement lower so more ppl could enjoy the update ;)

Excuse me?

I for one think that you are retarded.

@On topic:
Stop exaggerating. You are not the only active marksman and there are pyromancers in platon. This update should make less popular subclasses played more (for example few of my friends are already considering making barbarians), but changes wont happen overnight, the update is not even out yet. Once community grows, there should be plenty of every subclass around.
About the aoe spell, I would assume marksmen spell does more damage as its area is smaller, if not that should be changed. The reason (at least in my opinion) for marksmen co-up spells looking so "random" is that they do nothing that could be turned in to co-up spell. Every other class has its unique feature that can be turned in to something bigger (rogues/pyros invis, paladins/shamans heal, barbarians/warlocks locate), while marksmen make bolts. What would you have their co-up spells do, create massive amount of bolts? Having some co-up spells, as random as they might seem, is still better than nothing, right? Besides, mass-teleport will be awesome once you find high enough pyromancer.

Sorry I meant the only marksman on platon, there's only like 2 others that are above 50 and they don't play much :(

Even our speedboost is on a cooldown longer than its duration... ><

while I was writing your response wasnt there :)

Your friends are making barbarians, not marksmen...

And one of the above 50 is me, and I play quite active tbh. Just because I don't exp 24/7 doesn't mean I'm not active. (I'm Maedhros Tasartir)