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Butcher From Rivia
Player

Elysium
Level 324
Warrior
6th December 2023 13:24:15

Problem 1
Balancing all classes available in game is one of the most challenging aspects. Rather than preparing one big update and test changes I propose more "agile" approach.

Problem 2
Right now there seems to be very big differences in terms of how much exp/h each class can make solo. This is more important than it seems as it also means slower task completion, often making less profit and many more less obvious side effects.


My idea is quite simple. Whenever staff reads comments on some class being inferior to others and finds them valid - they can decide to act quickly and test things as it goes. Example down below:


1. Comments on forum are like "paladin sux, we need to hit 8 monsters, why high lvl can't hit more than 5 opponents..."

2. Staff <- hmm that might be actually a valid point

3. Staff decides to make change to one of the skills to hit all monsters around paladins but dealing less dmg than barbarian's spell

4. Here's where mini testing begins (call it a sprint or whatever) <- on server restart change is made to paladin spell, testing window is 1 week so until next restart

5. Change effects are evaluated and hopefully poll or any other means of gathering feedback is used to decide whether change was a success, needs tweaking or it needs to be removed completely

As consequences

1 week window should be long enough to see change impact but also short enough to don't disturb game economy etc (as long as numbers/ranges are sensible to begin with).

Changes can be made fairly easily and swiftly with always available option to tweak it even further later on.

This allows to have live feedback on the go and be more flexible on approach and end up with classes that will be enjoyable to play.

Lower likelihood that big update will turn out to be a failure. Less effort involved in minor chance is easier to get scrapped if it doesn't work out.


It's not a new concept at all, my idea is just trying to adapt it to class balancing and maybe other changes that would be found suitable for this kind of quick change -> feedback -> refinement loop. While game breaking changes that would be a risk of bug abuse etc can't be tested this way, there is always an option to do some internal testing before rolling these mini updated out.
Itzal
Premium

Pharos
Level 803
Ranger
7th December 2023 13:06:57 (Last edited 7th December 2023 13:07:11)

I agree with your ideas, it is a very valid option, I believe that with the constant complaints about the classes, it would be cool to implement this idea or even a parallel test server updating the classes with the update of the players, being able to set any level, so that it can be tested up to lvl 1.5, I don't know.
Butcher From Rivia
Player

Elysium
Level 324
Warrior
7th December 2023 15:06:15

Absolutely, whatever works for staff members and is going to get us results and changes to test quickly. Also just to make it clear by no mean I advice skipping testing and testing only on live servers, so any internal testing could take place before rolling out any changes for the players to try. Option with test server with rapid adjustments sounds very nice too and perhaps even safer in the end although at extra costs. Just some food for thoughts.
Promil
Player

Elysium
Level 40
Warrior
7th December 2023 15:24:44

+1 for all ideas.
Elite Xelsey
Player

Elysium
Level 314
Warrior
7th December 2023 15:26:14

I think this is a very good idea! Unfortunately, adapting the profession to the current gameplay seems quite difficult.

Note that there are currently the most mages and barbarians in the game.

Paladin is supposed to be a profession for blocking monsters? let's just ask ourselves who needs it now. Paladin in common exp, lowers exp/h, is useless.

Moreover, his healing is rather average - compared to the HP draining of barbarians.

I don't know much about other classes, I mainly play as a paladin.

To sum up, it's a good idea - I hope something will move in this direction, best regards
Deixando Claro
Player

Pharos
Level 202
Mage
7th December 2023 16:06:17

So.... New monsters please? Thanks
Itzal
Premium

Pharos
Level 803
Ranger
8th December 2023 13:12:47

A considerable improvement in rangers would be the factor of equalizing the damage of the weapon equal to that of the barbarian and reducing the magic in area to 2s.

It would be interesting to be able to enchant the quiver.

This would help the class a lot.
Disturbed Maverick
Player

Elysium
Level 208
Warrior
8th December 2023 18:28:55 (Last edited 8th December 2023 18:29:34)

Quoting Butcher From Rivia:
Problem 1
Balancing all classes available in game is one of the most challenging aspects. Rather than preparing one big update and test changes I propose more "agile" approach.

Problem 2
Right now there seems to be very big differences in terms of how much exp/h each class can make solo. This is more important than it seems as it also means slower task completion, often making less profit and many more less obvious side effects.


My idea is quite simple. Whenever staff reads comments on some class being inferior to others and finds them valid - they can decide to act quickly and test things as it goes. Example down below:


1. Comments on forum are like "paladin sux, we need to hit 8 monsters, why high lvl can't hit more than 5 opponents..."

2. Staff <- hmm that might be actually a valid point

3. Staff decides to make change to one of the skills to hit all monsters around paladins but dealing less dmg than barbarian's spell

4. Here's where mini testing begins (call it a sprint or whatever) <- on server restart change is made to paladin spell, testing window is 1 week so until next restart

5. Change effects are evaluated and hopefully poll or any other means of gathering feedback is used to decide whether change was a success, needs tweaking or it needs to be removed completely

As consequences

1 week window should be long enough to see change impact but also short enough to don't disturb game economy etc (as long as numbers/ranges are sensible to begin with).

Changes can be made fairly easily and swiftly with always available option to tweak it even further later on.

This allows to have live feedback on the go and be more flexible on approach and end up with classes that will be enjoyable to play.

Lower likelihood that big update will turn out to be a failure. Less effort involved in minor chance is easier to get scrapped if it doesn't work out.


It's not a new concept at all, my idea is just trying to adapt it to class balancing and maybe other changes that would be found suitable for this kind of quick change -> feedback -> refinement loop. While game breaking changes that would be a risk of bug abuse etc can't be tested this way, there is always an option to do some internal testing before rolling these mini updated out.


Agree.

Should be a balance to define what's fair in terms of exp/h for each subclass. I mean the worst subclass to level up could make for example 15% up to 25% less exp/h on same respawn than the best subclass to earn exp/h, of course considering both at same level and close skills. For sure it will be necessary to do some damage balancing by improving the weaker subclasses.



Quoting Elite Xelsey:
I think this is a very good idea! Unfortunately, adapting the profession to the current gameplay seems quite difficult.

Note that there are currently the most mages and barbarians in the game.

Paladin is supposed to be a profession for blocking monsters? let's just ask ourselves who needs it now. Paladin in common exp, lowers exp/h, is useless.

Moreover, his healing is rather average - compared to the HP draining of barbarians.

I don't know much about other classes, I mainly play as a paladin.

To sum up, it's a good idea - I hope something will move in this direction, best regards


Good points.

- The role of paladins is clearly to tank. Considering existing monsters/bosses even a barbarian can do the same role after achieving some level (500 - 600+). So Paladins need new stronger monsters in game to be useful again because the paladins aren't made to be the best damage dealers but to block monsters.

- The role of shaman is to be a supporter, healing and helping paladins. It seems they've the same problem than paladins also needing stronger monsters in game to be useful today. So to solve the problem, same solution of paladins, new monsters.


Quoting Itzal:
A considerable improvement in rangers would be the factor of equalizing the damage of the weapon equal to that of the barbarian and reducing the magic in area to 2s.

It would be interesting to be able to enchant the quiver.

This would help the class a lot.


It seems the problem to avoid the quivers to become enchantable really is because they're containers.

Perhaps the solution is to change them so that they are no longer containers, without the need to place arrows or bolts inside them so that ranged weapons continue to work, but still needing a quiver in a hand slot for bows and crossbows attack the targets properly.

In simple terms, just change the quivers be like shields or spellbooks (hand protectors), without the need for ammunition, also excluding the conjure ammunition spell. It'll also be possible to sell them on the market.
Lotis Efiro
Player

Elysium
Level 438
Ranger
10th December 2023 22:19:05

"It seems the problem to avoid the quivers to become enchantable really is because they're containers.

Perhaps the solution is to change them so that they are no longer containers, without the need to place arrows or bolts inside them so that ranged weapons continue to work, but still needing a quiver in a hand slot for bows and crossbows attack the targets properly.

In simple terms, just change the quivers be like shields or spellbooks (hand protectors), without the need for ammunition, also excluding the conjure ammunition spell. It'll also be possible to sell them on the market."

It was the first idea after update :). I am full of admiration that some people still have faith. Go Go Ranger 1000 :D
Oso Ikci
Player

Pharos
Level 50
Mage
12th December 2023 21:01:38

Quoting Deixando Claro:
So.... New monsters please? Thanks

+1

We need new monsters! Nowwwwwe
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